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Programming Languages
Posted by: Kyran
Date: February 21, 2007 08:29PM

I want to expand my knowledge in a programming language, but I'm not sure which one. I know a bit of Python, Perl, PHP, C++, C Sharp, and a few others. But, most of my knowledge in them is pretty basic. I think the main problem is I'm not sure what type of programs I want to write. So, any thoughts?

- Kyran

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Re: Programming Languages
Date: February 21, 2007 08:57PM

I know Visual Basic pretty damn well, and so I taught myself VBScript after that, but since it only effects Internet Explorer it seems pretty useless.


Awesome AnDrEw - That's The Sound Of Your Brain Crackin'
http://www.awesomeandrew.net/

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Re: Programming Languages
Posted by: jungsonn
Date: February 22, 2007 03:37AM

Most software is still written in the C range, even other server-side languages are written in it, or baded on it. C is a very good start. It's a pity I started with ASP & PHP and not with a C language. In C you really need to learn how to handle memory and things like that, you really have to "program" unlike PHP and sorts which does the most stuff for you. And you cannot permit to make mistakes, or you will notice them. I still have very little time to dedicate myself to the C language.

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Re: Programming Languages
Posted by: nEUrOO
Date: February 22, 2007 06:57AM

I'm one of this guy that started with ASM language then go to the C and finally the C++ which I know well... I definitely think this is a good way to learn the things and how it works. Even though, I mostly use Python/PHP for web stuffs (and C++ for all others).

For going further with a language, as far as I know, you have to do a big project and always looking for language specifics approach...

nEUrOO -- http://rgaucher.info -- http://twitter.com/rgaucher

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Re: Programming Languages
Posted by: mphreak
Date: February 22, 2007 02:21PM

Well, my suggestion is to use best tool for work you need to do.
But as I read somewhere: Don't call yourself a programmer if you don't know C programming language.

~mphreak

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Re: Programming Languages
Posted by: adam
Date: February 22, 2007 03:51PM

i only know perl ¬_¬

its handy though ^^ for writing random little sysadmin scripts and stuff (as well as web shizzle)

---------------------------------------
adam - http://www.eightfourseven2.co.uk

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Re: Programming Languages
Posted by: kogir
Date: February 23, 2007 02:14AM

If you want to really understand things, you'll need to learn some assembly at some point. It comes up in most low level remote exploits. If you're just looking for general purpose useful languages you might use on a regular basis, I'd learn C and then the scripting language of your choice (perl, php, ruby, etc).

If you want to learn assembly, save yourself a world of pain and skip x86. Learn ARM (useful for hacking up PDAs and CellPhones), or find an older Mac and teach yourself PowerPC.

x86 makes me cry every time I have to shift crap around because the registers aren't general purpose. Unless you're looking to find/create remote exploits, x86 isn't worth it.

-kogir

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Re: Programming Languages
Posted by: nEUrOO
Date: February 23, 2007 07:14AM

A very good assembly also is the Motorola 68k (I guess you can find it in Atari computers)

nEUrOO -- http://rgaucher.info -- http://twitter.com/rgaucher

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Re: Programming Languages
Posted by: mphreak
Date: February 23, 2007 04:58PM

At my university we programm Motorola 68000. It is quite popular, and nice start for ASM programmers, IMO.

~mphreak

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Re: Programming Languages
Posted by: Mordred
Date: March 07, 2007 05:22AM

Get a job ;)

It's the easiest and most profitable way to learn things.

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Re: Programming Languages
Posted by: SW
Date: March 07, 2007 11:51AM

C/C++ all the way. C# is crap.

Also Java is neat too though I never actually studied it and I don't think it is as useful as C/C++.

Assembly is a pain. :-\ Too boring for me to try to learn it.

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Re: Programming Languages
Posted by: jungsonn
Date: March 07, 2007 11:54AM

That's real programming. things like PHP, ASP etc are scripting laguages. In those you don't have to worry about memory allocation and stuff like that. If you program chips you have to do that, you need to understand the numeric systems like base binary, AND,OR,XOR ports, transistors, and knowing what they do and such things. Just like in programming languages like C, Java etc.

For real, you can't call yourself a programmer if you only touched a scripting language in your life. So it's always a good start at the beginning.

I did start programming chips before the internet, I was heavily into electronics, like designing and building your own circuit boards with black tape to draw circuit lines, etching them into an acid bath, soldering stuff unto it, so I builded many things, like radio's, my own CD player, and actually had build the first prototype of what the I-pod is today. Then you only had huge walkmans with tapes (this was around 1990 if I remember correctly). I took a harddisk (around 10MB that time) and constructed a circuit board which could write away music unto it. But it was to big to carry around, a pity ^^



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/07/2007 12:00PM by jungsonn.

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Re: Programming Languages
Posted by: SW
Date: March 07, 2007 02:56PM

Wow jungsonn you should sue apple for stealing your idea! ;-)

I agree scripting is getting bad. I don't even know what PHP and SQL is. It is just built with C++ and run on the server computer. Wouldn't it much more efficient and less vexing to build your own and not have to use this script language and that? They want you to study 30 different higher up languages that keep changing. >:O

Personally I would like to make my own OS, server, etc from the bottom up but that will be in 20 years or so at least because I'm working from the top down. :-\

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Re: Programming Languages
Date: March 07, 2007 06:40PM

@Jungsonn
I've always wanted to do that type of thing, but I never knew where to start. I see people modding consoles (themselves, and not with a modchip), DVD players, and everything else under the sun, and I just look at their finished products going, "Damn these people are good".


Awesome AnDrEw - That's The Sound Of Your Brain Crackin'
http://www.awesomeandrew.net/

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Re: Programming Languages
Posted by: jungsonn
Date: March 07, 2007 07:28PM

@SW

I've been thinking about this, to build my own version of PHP with many things tripped out of them. Most of the prebuild stuff I never use and only raises security risks cause it's build to be usefull to the oblivous scripter. But time...

@AnDrEw

It's the first thing I grew up with, I was playing with electronis since the age of 7 or 8. All before the internet, so you have to figure it all out by just "hacking" think that term implies that. Opening up TV sets and try adjust things to let them do other things, like imputting radio freq.(lowband) into the TV set instead of highband waves etc etc. Trying to figure out how you can hack into the "paychannels" by randomly searching bands, And i've learned quite a bit. Still today I can fix almost any appliance, and know what goes wrong with most appliance. There are alot of cool tricks like, if some type of diode is defect, you can't see it from the outside. So a quick way was to put the tip of the screwdriver under that type of diode and lift it just a little, if it would break, it was defect. Or use cooling spray on chips to see if they get to warm, if too warm they are defect. I've had also many electrical shocks though :),The voltage in our country was 220 Volts that time.

And yeah I was such type that wanted other things than the product was meant for, like my dad bought me a keyboard and I hated those standard sounds, so i modded the circuits by building extra dials and switches into it that controlled a few condensators which altered the frequency of the sounds, actually I modded that $49,95 keyboard into a personal synthesizer.

I must confess, I do miss that time, no internet, no way of getting information, you had no choice of just hacking stuff in order to make it fit your needs. And it really is fun todo in your sparetime like soldering stuff unto a copper epoxy plate.

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Re: Programming Languages
Posted by: SW
Date: March 07, 2007 07:49PM

I just download and see php is >25MBs.

Is this all necessary? (ACtually don't really know what it all does lol.)

Can't you just make a few custom programs and database for your website specifically without needing a whole high level programming language to be designed for it? :-\ You can do more with C too. I don't comprehend it.

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Re: Programming Languages
Posted by: jungsonn
Date: March 08, 2007 07:46AM

I think most program/scripting languages like other software, has way too many bells and whistles; useless features decreasing it's security. That's why just like other software it is always going to loose from custom build software when we talk about security for exactly this reason.

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