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I really hate Linux.
Posted by: Kyran
Date: January 24, 2007 09:58PM

Sorry to rant here.

I hate Linux, with an undying passion. But, my laptop is stuck with it.
(Unless someone knows how to install a new OS without any removable media. =_=; optical drive is fubar.)

So, I'm using an external monitor, but of course, Linux doesn't want to detect it. It thinks I'm using my laptops widescreen. Thus, half my fucking screen is off the edge of my external LCD. I've tried things like system-config-display --reconfig, and totally reinstalling X. But, nooo. And of course, these Linux geeks are too busy being amazed with themselves to give any sort of half assed support. "RTFM", they say. "JFGI" they say. It would help if I had any idea what was causing the problem!

Fuck Linux. I'd take Windows 3.1 over any distro of linux. ANY DAY.

So, anyone want to walk me through a network boot/install?

- Kyran

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Re: I really hate Linux.
Posted by: Ghozt
Date: January 24, 2007 10:20PM

I don't know if this would help, but I had to use dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg to get X to work with my card.

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Re: I really hate Linux.
Posted by: Kyran
Date: January 24, 2007 10:28PM

I need my drivers and DRI to be working for that. Which isn't going to happen since I'm using an ATI card. Fuck ati and their lack of driver support.

- Kyran

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Re: I really hate Linux.
Posted by: id
Date: January 24, 2007 10:32PM

long shot...does your bios support PXE? or booting off USB?

-id

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Re: I really hate Linux.
Posted by: Kyran
Date: January 24, 2007 10:47PM

Not from USB, at least not this version. But I haven't updated since I got it. PXE?

How would I even do a bios upgrade from linux? =_=;

- Kyran

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Re: I really hate Linux.
Posted by: id
Date: January 25, 2007 01:09AM

PXE is preboot execution environment...think of booting from the network instead of a drive. It would be under boot options, mostly servers use it, but a lot of newer desktops and some laptops also support it.

Also quite a few laptops support an external boot device, usually a floppy disk via cable, if you post the model I may be able to think of something...

The video thing with the external monitor may also be a bios setting, or possibly a monitor one. I don't know if updating your xconfig will fix it though, I'd try to reset your monitor or have it do auto-adjust while it is booted into X.

btw, I dislike linux a lot, but I'd prefer an old 1.x kernel with a bash shell and no gui over windows 3.1.

-id

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Re: I really hate Linux.
Posted by: Kyran
Date: January 25, 2007 01:15AM

I finally got it working. Turns out it was my first thought.
ATI sucks with drivers.

I think my laptop does have some sort of network boot, come to think of it.
Model is V2610CA or V2160CA. It's a compaq.

- Kyran

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Re: I really hate Linux.
Posted by: id
Date: January 25, 2007 01:48AM

yeah ATI sucks with open source drivers.

I took a quick look at hp's site and they don't have the manual available online that I could see...wtf?

-id

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Re: I really hate Linux.
Posted by: Kyran
Date: February 22, 2007 06:12PM

Little update. My laptop eventually died after a software update. So, I did a few things and got it to boot from USB. For some reason my version of Pheonix reads my USB as an IDE HDD. Lol.

So, it uses PXE 2.0 and can boot from USB if I do it right.
I think I want to drop it as a server since it has the better GPU and use my desktop as the server. Since, once I fix the screen I can take the laptop around.

Any ideas for how to install Windows on it? I don't have a Win2k server, although I guess I could try to set one up in VMWare? Help! lol...

- Kyran

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Re: I really hate Linux.
Posted by: id
Date: February 22, 2007 07:19PM

use a usb connected drive enclosure with a cdrom in it.

-id

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Re: I really hate Linux.
Posted by: Kyran
Date: February 22, 2007 07:52PM

Yup. I'm going to do that soon if I can't figure this out.
But, free > not free.

Any good guides on doing an install of XP via PXE? Possibly without 2000? :S

- Kyran

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Re: I really hate Linux.
Posted by: Kyran
Date: February 22, 2007 08:25PM

Okay. I have a PXE server working via tftpd32.
Now to make an ISO of windows and see if I can install via the network.

- Kyran

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Re: I really hate Linux.
Posted by: nEUrOO
Date: February 22, 2007 11:14PM

btw, Linux really sucks with dual screen... but personnaly I got no issue with my external LCD alone...

nEUrOO -- http://rgaucher.info -- http://twitter.com/rgaucher

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Re: I really hate Linux.
Posted by: id
Date: February 23, 2007 09:14AM

though I hate linux more than most, display problems are almost always the fault of X and not the underlying OS.

-id

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Re: I really hate Linux.
Posted by: Kyran
Date: February 23, 2007 11:21AM

I might try FreeBSD soon. If I can find a network boot image.

- Kyran

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Re: I really hate Linux.
Posted by: thrill
Date: February 23, 2007 12:57PM

I recently worked for a dating website, no names, but their initials are friendfinder.

Anyway, I was a sr. network engineer, and when asked what OS I wanted to use, of course I told them Linux. When they told me that "linux does not work with dual monitors" I chuckled and said "well, let me give it a shot".. it took me a whole 2 hours to do enough research to get my X.conf configured properly to use the dual monitors I had.

So to say that Linux sucks with dual screens is false, as id said, it is usually X's problem, but in the end, it's usually a UHE.. or a User Headspace Error.

As for booting off the network using PXE/BOOTP, if you have a second machine you can use http://netboot.sourceforge.net/english/index.shtml to boot from anything. Yes, making an ISO of a Win install CD will allow you to install from the network.. also, you could use Ghost server to achieve the same thing with an image you can create off your currently installed windows...

--thrill

nEUrOO Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> btw, Linux really sucks with dual screen... but
> personnaly I got no issue with my external LCD
> alone...

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Re: I really hate Linux.
Posted by: Kyran
Date: February 23, 2007 02:03PM

Using netboot? It says it only does Win95 since it's largely based off of DOS 7.
:S

At any rate, I still haven't figured out how to install FreeBSD via my current PXE setup. And obviously not windows. I might install Debian Linux. =\

- Kyran

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Re: I really hate Linux.
Posted by: id
Date: February 23, 2007 03:12PM

It's really not hard to do.

http://people.freebsd.org/~alfred/pxe/en_US.ISO8859-1/articles/pxe/article.html

Though I have never had the occasion to do it with freebsd, I've installed several openbsd boxes this way.

btw, though the example is using a fbsd box, all of the openbsd boxes I have installed from windows using solarwind's free tftp server.

-id



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/23/2007 03:14PM by id.

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Re: I really hate Linux.
Posted by: Kyran
Date: February 23, 2007 05:59PM

I think all this stuff is way beyond me. I'm really considering adding a Win2k paritition and installing a pirated XP Pro via MS RIS. Ughhhh. I won't be able to get a USB Optical drive for awhile either...

- Kyran

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Re: I really hate Linux.
Posted by: nEUrOO
Date: February 23, 2007 07:29PM

did you try a linux distribution such as Ubuntu?
this is really user friendly and generally this is good for the drivers... well ATI drivers sux but you can find others :)

thrill: Actually I didn't even try to fix this because it's not a real problem for me.. I used to use the dual screen (LCD + laptop) under windows but only for media stuffs the second screen...

nEUrOO -- http://rgaucher.info -- http://twitter.com/rgaucher

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Re: I really hate Linux.
Posted by: Kyran
Date: February 23, 2007 08:08PM

I've tried many linux distrobutions. Fedora, Debian, variations of Ubuntu, etc. Pretty much all crap. OpenBSD is nice, although I haven't had a chance to try FreeBSD still. But, all in all, I think I like a nice Win2k install best.

- Kyran

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Re: I really hate Linux.
Posted by: id
Date: February 23, 2007 08:30PM

I would write you a step by step guide of doing it from windows (I should have done that long ago), but right now I'm just way way too busy though...so if you want to wait a couple weeks you might get it, right after the irc server ;0

-id

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Re: I really hate Linux.
Posted by: jungsonn
Date: February 23, 2007 09:03PM

LINUX rocks! and all you linux haters... uhm, well are kinda right some time ;)

But still obviously, nothing beats linux as OS. Forget Microbrain and their windows. it's the worst invention ever; Insecure, huuuuge! and full of useless crap.

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Re: I really hate Linux.
Posted by: id
Date: February 24, 2007 02:56AM

Just to start an OS flamewar...

Linux is basically the lowest common denominator, as far as I can see it only has two things going for it, and if you don't need them, why bother?

1. Works with more PC hardware and peripherals than any other OS, though *bsd is close
2. Slightly faster than *bsd for smp, though I have high hopes for dragonfly.

If I had an application that I needed true uptime on system though I wouldn't go with either, Solaris and HPUX beat the crap out of anything opensource.

-id

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Re: I really hate Linux.
Posted by: Kyran
Date: February 24, 2007 05:52AM

The only thing I have found I like about Linux is only in one distro afaik.
the yum package manager in fedora.

Anyways, Posting this from Win2k3. Hopefully I'll have a RIS thing setup soon.

- Kyran

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Re: I really hate Linux.
Posted by: jungsonn
Date: February 24, 2007 07:34AM

Linux is my favorite OS when it comes to programming, it's peacefully with not very much colors, which disturbs me. And their whole arangemant makes just more sense than MS products. It's like working on a server, Everything I got on my server I also got on my Linux workstation. This machine is to work on only actually, I don't test on it that much. My XP machine is just for testing, browsing a a little and sitting there as honeypot in my network. No any sensitive files on it, just a plain install.

But figure this; I re-installed XP last year on it the first thing Windows told me when I booted up; "Your computer might be at risk!" Can anyone believe that... after surfing a while, I was forced to install anti-spyware, and a virus scanner that runs a check everyday, eating up all precious processor cycles. I really never can get used to MS products.

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Re: I really hate Linux.
Posted by: thrill
Date: February 24, 2007 01:06PM

It's funny how some people are so 'afraid' of trying other OS's, and they rather bash them.. not to mention any names, but his initials are 'id' is one of them. ;)

I have found that no matter what OS you run, as long as you can install your GNU tools on it it's fine. Like running Solaris (id?) and installing all the GNU tools made it a lot more bearable. Okay, so they have the rc files in different places.. so what, a lot of Unix (the non open source ones) do the same thing.. I'm not sure if Solaris and HPUX put their startup files in the same place, but I know AIX and Solaris are the same in that sense.

Stability wise, Linux has come a long way from an OS that used to have a default user in it's /etc/password file which everyone used to hack in... I've had servers that were closing in on 3 years of uptime, and they still ran just fine. Of course all systems will have their downfalls depending on what software they're running.. at times stability is not a measure of the underlying OS, but more on how crappy the software you run on it was written.

As id knows, I run Linux servers (slackware, gentoo & Astaro Security Linux), OpenBSD servers, he recently added a FreeBSD server, and the old gentoo server is about to get DragonFly installed on it next week. The slackware server was built in 2001.. I have not updated the kernel since shortly after I installed it.. but it still chugs along running iptables and it still redirects all my traffic to my other servers just fine. OpenBSD was installed in 2002, and although it got hacked within 3 days of being put online with the old OpenSSH hack which was 0 day back then, it's still running as my main web/ssh server..

So in a way, I guess you can blame the admin of the server if it's unstable.. I've even had Windows NT servers that ran very stable and were VERY secure, until some moron decided to patch it and broke everything.. yes, I used to be a win nt admin at UCLA, and this server used to handle all the payroll transmissions for the entire UC system. It would get a file from the mainframe via ftp, using 'at' scripts I scanned the incoming directory, if the file was there it was moved to another directory, the old files renamed, then the script used to call procomm with a script of it's own that used to dial up Wells Fargo and upload the file, which then received an acknowledgment file from wells fargo, which then got emailed to the payroll department using a very simple smtp program..

That server worked flawlessly for almost 5 years.. they tried to update it to win2k a couple of years ago and broke everything..

So I guess I'm just a better admin than id because I control whether my servers are stable or not.. ;)

--thrill

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Re: I really hate Linux.
Posted by: id
Date: February 24, 2007 04:29PM

Totally missed my point.

I've built and managed environments with over 500 Linux servers, 400ish Solaris servers and thousands of HPUX. I've only done installations of maybe a dozen FreeBSD boxes, a few OpenBSD and I won't bother mentioning MS shit. Saying I haven't tried or am afraid to try an OS is just silly.

I'd like to believe I'm pretty much OS agnostic, all I want is for the best tool to be used at the job. And I totally agree that Linux has it's place, but the fanboys annoy me because they don't know it's place.

Linux:
Cheap supercomputers, reliability of a component isn't that important, and security is controlled elsewhere.
Devices that are Linux specific
For development in devices that performance is important, with limited resources

I've audited IBM's Linux implementation on their blade servers in one of the biggest online retailers, it was pathetic to say the least, not a single attempt to create a secure environment. It used Redhat Enterprise, so they are just as guilty IMO. I'm pretty sure they don't get to do the next implementation of that site.

Solaris/HPUX/AIX:
Corporations who need rock solid stability and don't mind paying the price.
Super high performance that needs reliability and support.

OpenBSD
It's more of a pain to upgrade and maintain than the other BSDs, but has an outstanding security record, so, on the cheap, it is the best for firewalls or other simple services that demand high security.

FreeBSD
Most PC (I don't care about netbsd's DEC implementation) support of any of the BSDs, and currently is the easiest to maintain, has good performance, and is pretty rock solid on cheap hardware.

DragonflyBSD
I hope they can come through with their goals, it's really an impressive system, and as I have said before I will be testing this out for the next version of ha.ckers/sla.ckers.

Windows
Exchange is the only reason to use windows ever, someone fix this, please.

So yeah, I don't care what OS it is, just know what goes where. This site runs FreeBSD because I don't like wasting time on Linux and performance isn't the end goal, and it's probably 98% as fast. The firewall protecting it runs OpenBSD because it has an excellent track record, and pf rocks if you know what you're doing.

Use the right tool for the job, Linux is almost always the wrong one.

-id

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Re: I really hate Linux.
Posted by: thrill
Date: February 24, 2007 05:29PM

id Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Totally missed my point.
>
> Use the right tool for the job, Linux is almost
> always the wrong one.

First off.. we have agreed many times in the past that you are totally pointless, so no need to bring that up again.

Your opinion, which of course you are entitled to, is that Linux is almost always the wrong OS to use. But you forget that not everyone in this world is as smart and as sexy *cough* as you. The learning curve for learning a new OS can be quite steep for some people. This is why even within Linux you have such a wide range of distros. I started with slackware in 1992 when it came on 32 floppies, and I still prefer that distro over any other. Why? For the same reason that OpenBSD was so easy for me.. I like to know what I'm installing, where it's going, and being able to modify it. Who knows, I might actually really like FreeBSD and DragonFlyBSD for the same reason.

Of course, slackware was too complicated for a lot of people to install back then, so RedHat came out.. and the mouse dependant crowd jumped on the linux band wagon..

Just a couple of days ago I downloaded the iso for Ubuntu.. popped it in my laptop and watched it boot up.. in one word, my opinion of it is "EEK!".. yes, it is a nice distro, very easy to install.. just not for me.

Anyway, back to my pointless point. Some people like the ease of use of Linux, and their lack of intellect may lead them to think it is the best damn OS out there, but you and I know that they are partly right and partly wrong.

What I hate is the bigotry of people. For YOU, linux is the wrong tool, but for many it is the right tool. And yes, you can argue until you get blue in the face, just like a mormon about their beliefs, but you just have to realize that "to each his own"..

Now gimme a beer and a pop-tart biotch!

--thrill

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Re: I really hate Linux.
Posted by: kuza55
Date: February 24, 2007 07:31PM

I don't have much experience with servers, so everything I say comes out of using Windows and Slackware as a desktop OS.

Personally, I prefer Slackware to Windows.

Just to provide some context to that statement; I installed Slackware on my computer at the end of 2005 because I was getting extremely frustrated with MS VC++. And so I installed Slackware, and I absolutely adore gcc, and would much rather write C code for linux than for Windows, it all just seems to work much nicer.

I very happily ran Slackware for about 6-8 months (and nothing broke! - it was working perfectly; I even had Never Winter Nights running on it) before I decided to try and install Gentoo (since I wanted to move to a distro which had repositories I could access from the command line, rather than having to find the packages on the web, download them, and then try and use the package manager), and had major issues installing it and getting it to work (I knew what I needed to do, but I couldn't be bothered wasting a couple of hours for no real gain); and since I had other things I needed to be doing I went back to my windows boot (since I was running dual boot, since I couldn't be bothered configuring wine since I didn't have many Windows tools), and since I haven't been doing any C programming lately Windows hasn't been that bad.

But if I ever wanted to start writing C code again, I'd either ssh somewhere with gcc installed, and write things there, or set up Slackware.

Oh; I've tried installing Ubuntu, but it really didn't want to work with my wireless card; I installed the driver ok, but the pretty menus it has didn't want to connect to my network, and it didn't have any of the command line tools I'd been using on Slackware to connect to my network, and so I just threw it out, and went back to windows.

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