Cenzic 232 Patent
Paid Advertising
sla.ckers.org is
ha.ckers sla.cking
Sla.ckers.org
For any nonsense or banter that doesn't fit anywhere else. LoL! omg! ROFL! 
Go to Topic: PreviousNext
Go to: Forum ListMessage ListNew TopicSearchLog In
How I became a window cleaner
Posted by: Gareth Heyes
Date: February 07, 2008 04:56AM

Yesterday was a insane day. I was asked to meet my boss for 10 minutes to talk about future plans etc. and he decided to break the news that I'd no longer be developing the web applications I worked on for 4 years. He wants me to work on small web sites and develop "forms" lol, as they are going to outsource the web applications (after I show them how it all works).

I'd already seen this coming because I went for an interview a few days ago which is the second reason why I became a window cleaner...

At the interview of this unnamed company,it was going well I showed them all the web sites I'd developed over the years. Then I started to show the security stuff and explained how I was into the web security scene. Suddenly I knew something wasn't quite right because then I was asked silly questions like "So your passion is web security then?". Yeah it is you dumbass, how else do you develop web stuff without thinking about security (oh yeah that's right your site contains tons of XSS holes I forgot, but didn't mention).

Well I knew I hadn't got the job before I got the email:-
"Thanks for coming in to see us last week. We were very impressed with your skill set and experience, however we don’t think the role we’re looking to fill is particularly suited to these skills. We’re looking for a strong creative edge/awareness as well technical skills."

Where I live it sucks for any sort of web security company, so I'm left with applying for jobs at web design firms who obviously don't give a damn if their applications are secure or not.

So I do you a good price, get the front done and get the back windows for free. Only £5 per week.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.";
labs : [www.businessinfo.co.uk]
blog : [www.thespanner.co.uk]
Hackvertor : [hackvertor.co.uk]

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: How I became a window cleaner
Posted by: Anonymous User
Date: February 07, 2008 06:41AM

Damn, man - somebody with your skills deserves way better than that. I'd love to carry you and your family to Germany cause my company is looking for good security affine developers right now and we pay a good salary.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: How I became a window cleaner
Posted by: Gareth Heyes
Date: February 07, 2008 07:30AM

Yeah if only there was something closer to home, ah well. Sorry for silliness I'm just a bit down at the moment.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.";
labs : [www.businessinfo.co.uk]
blog : [www.thespanner.co.uk]
Hackvertor : [hackvertor.co.uk]

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: How I became a window cleaner
Posted by: thornmaker
Date: February 07, 2008 08:56AM

Is Amsterdam close enough?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: How I became a window cleaner
Posted by: Gareth Heyes
Date: February 07, 2008 09:05AM

@thornmaker

I'm based in the UK, I'd love to work at any security company around the world but I think I'd have difficulty persuading the missus to move :(

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.";
labs : [www.businessinfo.co.uk]
blog : [www.thespanner.co.uk]
Hackvertor : [hackvertor.co.uk]

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: How I became a window cleaner
Posted by: Anonymous User
Date: February 07, 2008 09:17AM

@Gareth: Have you talked to pdp, dk or AP? They should have a wide range of contacts in the UK ITS and maybe it's a chance.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/07/2008 09:17AM by .mario.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: How I became a window cleaner
Posted by: Gareth Heyes
Date: February 07, 2008 09:31AM

@Mario

Thanks I'll send them a email and see if anything happens

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.";
labs : [www.businessinfo.co.uk]
blog : [www.thespanner.co.uk]
Hackvertor : [hackvertor.co.uk]

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: How I became a window cleaner
Posted by: thrill
Date: February 07, 2008 11:52AM

@Gareth - I just recently went through something somewhat similar. While I do love my current job, there was an issue around mid December that made me question my stability here, and as fate would have it, Jan. 3rd I received an email inviting me to apply for an Director/Manager of IT at a local company.

We scheduled a time for me to come in, and after 4hrs and a number of people interviewing me, I finally met the CTO. Everything had gone pretty well prior to this, but I noticed a change the instant I brought up the security/privacy issue of them outsourcing their email.

I would mention their name, but why give them more publicity.. besides, they gave me the promotion here at work so the issues from back in December no longer exist.

And as for the missus.. I feel your pain.. right now I'm single and planning to move out of the SF bay area probably within the next year.. and while I would love to get a gf, I know that I jeopardize my chance to leave the area if I really do get attached.. so I'm staying single. :)

EDIT: more info than necessary.. :)

--thrill

---

It is not the degrees you hold, but the mind you possess. - thrill



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/07/2008 09:10PM by thrill.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: How I became a window cleaner
Posted by: Gareth Heyes
Date: February 07, 2008 12:49PM

@thrill

Yep this is more than a individual company problem, too many have a poor impression of security or it's value. One good thing about it is that one day we'll all be able to laugh at them as they beg us to fix their software/web sites :)

If things were different in my personal life then I would have moved a long time ago but I'm married with a little one on the way so there's no chance of us moving now :(

And yeah you're right it was kind of them to email me and to be fair he's not a bad guy but you know when things just get to you.

That sucks that they didn't even email you back or send you a letter, it shows their lack of professionalism.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.";
labs : [www.businessinfo.co.uk]
blog : [www.thespanner.co.uk]
Hackvertor : [hackvertor.co.uk]

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: How I became a window cleaner
Posted by: thrill
Date: February 07, 2008 04:51PM

Quote

One good thing about it is that one day we'll all be able to laugh at them as they beg us to fix their software/web sites :)

Yes, you are correct. I'm still laughing at my old UCLA boss who told me "Linux is not a real operating system" back in 1999.

Can't beat that type of forward and open thinking.. heh..

--thrill

---

It is not the degrees you hold, but the mind you possess. - thrill

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: How I became a window cleaner
Posted by: id
Date: February 08, 2008 04:26PM

Just because people use it doesn't make it a real OS ;)

-id

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: How I became a window cleaner
Date: February 09, 2008 12:31AM

I can empathize as well being as how I am trying to change my career paths at the moment. Won't get into what I've done prior, or what I'm doing at the moment (everything about my current job sucks), but I'm trying to get out of it and working on a degree (since I've been told numerous times that certification alone will not qualify you for employment). Last interview I went on for an I.T. job I began asking about security, and their response was "Well we have a pretty good firewall, and I don't think we have anything hackers really want unless they're bored."


Awesome AnDrEw - That's The Sound Of Your Brain Crackin'
http://www.awesomeandrew.net/

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: How I became a window cleaner
Posted by: thrill
Date: February 09, 2008 12:03PM

ah yes, those amazing firewalls can be a real life saver, you know nothing gets through unless we allow it.

Quote

I don't think we have anything hackers really want

My UCLA boss told me that too.. Of course, our department was the one responsible for the mainframe that held all student/faculty/staff records, and processed payroll for the entire UC system. Naw.. who would want that kind of stuff? Besides, we have a UberSuperDuperExtraCreamOnTop Firewall.. those pesky hackers are no match.. heh..

Oh.. yeah.. and the mainframe was NAT'ed to hide it's real IP address, but it did not restrict connections to it.. all you needed was your nifty tn3270 emulator and off you went bruteforcing your way to fame and fortune.

--thrill

---

It is not the degrees you hold, but the mind you possess. - thrill

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: How I became a window cleaner
Posted by: Anonymous User
Date: February 09, 2008 04:25PM

Quote

Well we have a pretty good firewall

wow that is so old school ignorance... maybe it's an idea to poin them to the router hacking contest to see how much that firewall of them is going to stop when we can CHANGE their router firewall settings :)

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: How I became a window cleaner
Posted by: id
Date: February 09, 2008 04:30PM

I'm bored

-id

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: How I became a window cleaner
Posted by: Kyran
Date: February 13, 2008 12:14AM

id Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm bored


HOW CAN BE BORED WHEN YOU HAVE TIME CUBE TO PONDER?

- Kyran

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: How I became a window cleaner
Posted by: Anonymous User
Date: February 13, 2008 05:26AM

lol.. yeh or get me some of that ELECTRIC UNIVERSE!

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: How I became a window cleaner
Posted by: digi7al64
Date: February 18, 2008 08:27PM

wow Gareth, that sucks, for me I am quite lucky since I have a great job developing an Internet Banking product (its my dream come true).

I would suggest you try to move towards more financial stuff and stay away for "credible" web development firms.

In terms of "hacking" credentials, essentially most places don't know, don't care and aren't impressed. Instead focus you conversations towards you your understanding of the syntax and the tools you have developed to increase development productivity.

Then, once you have your foot in the door, point out holes [those not coded by your boss :)] and start teaching the other devs the importance of html encoding blah blah blah. This will allow you to demonstrate you skills and hopefully provide pathways for future career opportunities.

oh yeah, try to go for Internet banking if you are serious about security. They are probably the most attacks sites and you always need to keep on top of all new threats (i.e. silent banker is a perfect example ATM) and the problem solving required to beat these threats makes for awesome fun.

----------
'Just because you got the bacon, lettuce, and tomato don't mean I'm gonna give you my toast.'

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: How I became a window cleaner
Posted by: Gareth Heyes
Date: February 18, 2008 08:56PM

@digi7al64

Thanks for the advice mate much appreciated, my work currently sucks as I'm being removed from all coding duties (It's like taking away my legs) and web agencies don't care about iframe hex entities data url XSS vectors :)

I've done the usual thing of hiding my knowledge of web security and just showing potential employers my coding skills but I just have difficulty keeping quiet anymore. I mean c'mon this is crazy surely I should be more employable because I'm making the software more secure.

On the plus side I have had some great help from Mario and he's promised to connect me with some head hunters once I sort my online profile out :) I've also been contacted via email by a certain company which I wasn't expecting at all. So fingers crossed I can get a job in web security otherwise I'll be cleaning windows.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.";
labs : [www.businessinfo.co.uk]
blog : [www.thespanner.co.uk]
Hackvertor : [hackvertor.co.uk]

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: How I became a window cleaner
Posted by: Gareth Heyes
Date: March 17, 2008 08:53AM

Well as I predicted I've been made redundant :(

Someone who I worked with grassed me up that I was looking for a new job and then I got a call from the boss the next day and surprise, surprise I was no longer needed.

This guy didn't even thank me for the work I've done even though I've maintained all our development work on my own. I got 1 month notice and 3 week pay redundancy (the standard), some people just don't care. They are outsourcing to a company down south.

I have got a job lined up but it might not be for a few weeks yet so if anyone needs a temporary web designer/programmer/pen tester then please PM me. I'm available from Thursday 20th March.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.";
labs : [www.businessinfo.co.uk]
blog : [www.thespanner.co.uk]
Hackvertor : [hackvertor.co.uk]

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: How I became a window cleaner
Posted by: Malkav
Date: March 17, 2008 09:50AM

gareth i know someone who may be interested in your services. he runs [asystant.net] and is looking for a killer php coder, with a strong security mindset (web dev business, with true bits of OpenBSD powered paranoia innit)

on another note i will be looking for a strong web app coder soon, france or not. seems i had a little underestimated the BI/secops business over here, and i clearly won't be able to handle *both* dev'ing our applications (choice made for trust reason, and absence of existing specific offer) and handling the missions.

so if this summer/fall you're still looking for work...

in the mean time if you want to know more about asystant, pm me

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Those that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
--Benjamin Franklin

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: How I became a window cleaner
Posted by: Gareth Heyes
Date: March 17, 2008 09:56AM

@Malkav

Thanks so much I will do

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.";
labs : [www.businessinfo.co.uk]
blog : [www.thespanner.co.uk]
Hackvertor : [hackvertor.co.uk]

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: How I became a window cleaner
Posted by: dex
Date: March 22, 2008 06:28AM

I know a company here in Austria, which afaik also have a branch in uk (but most of their programmers work at home, like me :-) and they are planning a really big webapp where security is also a huge matter (I'm a good friend of the cto, so I know that)...currently the webapp is on ice because they had some other problems with a small competitor, but it should be reinstated in mid april...this is a really huge company, but know one knows about them :-)
their main application is in java, so java knowledge would be needed. also because as the framework they are planning to use 'wicket'

so i will talk to them, as soon as possible, but I cannot promise anything...

Options: ReplyQuote


Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.